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posted 12th Nov 2017, 3:45 PM

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12th Nov 2017, 3:45 PM

WanderingJew

If all else fails, ask a demon and give them cigarattes.
Sorry, had to delete and reupload due to an error.

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14th Nov 2017, 12:11 PM

adam

I gotta ask: is this sort of trade actually rooted in goetic mysticism? Or is this for the sake of a story?

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14th Nov 2017, 12:44 PM

WanderingJew

In some ways, yes.
However, the point of Goetia and it's relation to Kabbalah is using the power of God and angels to control demonic forces for good or the betterment of mankind. But in order to do that, specific qualifications must be met and there are certain ritualistic practices that do sort of count as a "trade" or a "sacrifice" (for example, remaining chaste).
But Lionel's relationship with specific demons is much closer and more like friendship as opposed to a forced working relationship. However, the majority of demons in the Ars Goetia are old Canaanite gods and goddesses, demonized, and do require some rousing or bribery to be interested.

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19th Nov 2017, 1:26 PM

adam

Thank you for your answer.

I find this interesting because I am mostly-finished reading a book about jinn. One section talks about amulets and how they have the names of angels inscribed on them.

Are these demons be jinn from a Muslim perspective? Or are the two separate in this universe (Muslim do seem to differentiate demons and jinn)?

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19th Nov 2017, 5:13 PM

WanderingJew

Well, to Muslims and in Arabic, they're known as jinn, where as to Jews and in Hebrew, it's shedim. In Hebrew (most likely the same as Arabic), spirits that are the remnants of human souls are defined separately (for example, the dybbuk is a human spirit that clings to the living, with poltergeist-like activity). Shedim refers to demons or spirits, but not human spirits. It's the same thing with jinn, they're not human spirits, but can be defined as demons or spirits.
However, the word "demon", at least in a modern context, would refer to a spirit with malicious or evil intent, whereas jinn and shedim are dangerous and may be malicious, but not necessarily evil. Shedim and jinn are essentially the same thing, just different names set by a language and cultural barrier. In Hebrew, the word for "demon" is most likely a loan word from another language or culture (I think it's origins are actually Assyrian, although the word "demon" comes from the Greek "daemon", but still a word used to refer to spirits in general).
But to answer your question, they're the same thing and it's the same process to control and/or use them.

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